Wikis in EFL/ESL
EFL Geek recently started a wiki called ESL and EFL wiki. Other than Tom’s Famous Personages Project, the wiki for the EVO 2005 course on Blogs in EFL/ESL, and a Webheads wiki, I wonder what other wikis in the field of English Langauge Teaching exist? Because it has been a year since the EVO wiki was updated, and the Webheads wiki is almost empty, I can’t help but question whether there is enough collective interest in the field to sustain one.
Perhaps what is needed is a heroic effort on the part a few devoted individuals to lay down the foundation and show everyone what is possible in terms of the kind of useful resources that can be collectively amassed and presented. It would need to be comprehensive and continuously updated, so that other practicioners could use it and link to it, eventually adding their own links and content. This would push it over a critical mass of participants, enough to make it self-sustainable. It would also have to be presented in such a way that it didn’t appear to be affiliated with one particular individual or one particular group, but rather sported an identity that represented the community at large. It would have a unique and recognizable URL to boot. This is how it would succeed, I think.
EFL Geek wrote:
Aaron,
I agree with you 100% on the need of a number of dedicated individuals to put in a major effort to build up pages and resources. Currently I’m the only one who has done anything. And even what i have done is mostly create a number of pages that need much more content.
I think that this project has a lot of potential but, like forums, will take a lot of work to reach critical mass in order to become self-sustaining. I look forward to you are your readers contributions.
Posted 30 May 2006 at 9:49 am ¶
daniel wrote:
i’ve noticed the same sort of thing with ESL/EFL blogs…there’s a seminar or a presentation of some sort where all the participants are taken through the process of creating a blog and then…nothing. a few posts for a bit and then people stop bothering. same thing happens with student blogs.
i’m sure that the reasons for this are too numerous to list but in general i’d have to surmise that the “rewards” of the task (blogging) just aren’t a)there at all or b) immediate enough to keep most people engaged.
for the wiki to reach critical mass, visitors are going to need to have a positive (useful?) experience with it immediately which will draw them back. after all, think about how many websites (blogs) we’ve quit visiting b/c nothing engages us.
Posted 30 May 2006 at 6:45 pm ¶
EFL Geek wrote:
Daniel,
good point and that is also why I can’t do it alone. Hope others will contribute.
Posted 30 May 2006 at 7:00 pm ¶
Marco Polo wrote:
For me, the issue is not interest (which I have) but time. I simply do not have the time to do this, or investigate it right now. I have conferences to prepare for, classes to prepare, homework to check, emails to answer, etc. None of my students use wikis. None of my colleagues do (to my knowledge). The incentive to learn is purely my own curiosity, at the moment.
I would be interested in a specific-time-frame “course” on (say) how to use wikis for EFL. But an open-ended project with a beginning but no end and no “events” or “stages” to particularly draw me in… will inevitably get shoved onto the back burner, into the “someday/maybe” file.
Posted 30 May 2006 at 10:55 pm ¶
Aaron wrote:
I think Daniel and Marco make good points. People are busy, so they really have to see the value of making a contribution and they have to feel joy in that process as well. Part of that, too, is having a sense of ownership. One of the reasons the Wikipedia is so successful is because it is OURS, not Microsoft’s or Google’s or Dave Winer’s. No one particular individual or group owns it - we do.
So EFL Geek, although the ESL/EFL wiki is a very nice idea, it won’t work unless we feel its ours. When you refer to it as “my wiki” and present it as integrated with your blog and your forum, you are taking personal ownership of the space from the get go. How likely is anyone to donate their valuable time and energy to contribute to something that someone else is laying claim to? If I installed a wiki here on e-poche and asked people to contribute, nobody would because it would reek of me. There is little incentive to collaborate, for it would go against the spirit of a wiki: that of selfless contribution to a community resource.
If you want this idea to work (and I think it is a very good idea), set up the wiki and offer it to the community. Remove all traces of yourself from it, register a unique URL, ask for help, start adding content, and call it ‘our wiki’. I’d be much more willing to help work on a project like that, and I’d imagine others would, too.
However, there is still the question of necessity to consider. What would be unique about the content there? There are already some very nice, link-rich resources available, like manythings.org. We wouldn’t want to work hard to reproduce a resource that already exists. So what would the wiki look like?
Posted 31 May 2006 at 7:35 am ¶
EFL Geek wrote:
Aaron,
I understand people are busy - I’m incredibly busy right now and haven’t put as much effort into it as I should.
I disagree with the it won’t work until it becomes “ours” The wiki works through community building and I can’t exactly call it ours until more than one person is contributing and even then it would still be mine because I would own the domain and be the one paying for the hosting and the one who owns the software and the one putting in the time to customize the feel of the site (I haven’t yet customized the look)
Having said all that, I do want others to contribute and build the wiki. Additionally I hope that it will be organic and grow in whatever way the community decides to take it - things don’t always have to follow the founders goals or plans.
The whole thing for me is to build a community and many communities are built around a concept or a person who starts it, if that is me then why not - I’m not doing this to make money (their is no advertising or fee structures on my site). I’m also not doing it for fame, since I blog anonymously. I’m doing it to help others and to hopefully provide a centralized resource that teachers will find useful and enjoyable.
I fail to see how a wiki is destined to fail just because it is integrated into another site that offers other features such as forums (underused as of yet) a blog and a photogallery (should I choose to use the integrated one I have available). A community has multiple features that draws people - it doesn’t have to be just a wiki or just a forum etc.
I think daniel and marco make good points, but Aaron your comments are ones that I would never say to students since they are negative and counterproductive. You have essentially decided that I am doomed to fail since it doesn’t fit your veiw of what a wiki should be. You may be correct (I don’t think so), but your approach is not good.
Posted 31 May 2006 at 8:02 am ¶
Aaron wrote:
Well, perhaps you are right about my approach not being good. Upon re-reading the comment I left earlier today, I can see how its directness could be interpreted as negative. Hurtful criticism was not my intention, nor would I ever wish someone to fail at something. I apologize if I have angered you or caused you any discomfort by writing that way.
I thought I was being constructive (not “counter productive”) in pointing out that the wiki is a really good idea, but that a greater number of people might be willing to donate time and effort if you didn’t lay claim to the wiki upfront. I am not saying that it is “doomed to fail,” only that it ought to be presented in a different way that would make its success more likely.
I’d like to see a useful collective resource in our field, too, that’s why I offer my comments. Please see them as constructive, not as antagonistic.
Posted 31 May 2006 at 5:42 pm ¶
EFL Geek wrote:
Aaron,
I probably took your comment the wrong way because of a number of personal things this week. Anyhow let’s move on and we can think about ways to make this a successful and productive wiki.
Sean
Posted 01 Jun 2006 at 10:09 am ¶
Aaron wrote:
Hi Sean…
Yes, let’s see how this wiki can work. I’d just love to see it blossom into something that everyone can benefit from.
Aaron
Posted 01 Jun 2006 at 10:41 pm ¶
Roger Chrisman wrote:
Wikigogy.org is such a wiki for teachers of English as a second or foreign language worldwide. I put it online in April 2006. I gave it a name than makes me laugh and is memorable, on purpose. It runs on the same wiki software as Wikipedia and also like it has NO ads. I aim to make it a pleasure to write on. Ads are not a pleasure. It is growing slowly; all teachers are welcome: http://Wikigogy.org
If you would like to join an email list that discusses development of Wikigogy.org, send a blank email to:
wikigogy-subscribe@googlegroups.com
Cheers
Roger Chrisman
http://Wikigogy.org/User:Roger
Wikigogy Founder
(650) 387-4732
Palo Alto
Posted 27 Jun 2006 at 2:37 pm ¶
Aaron wrote:
Hi Roger…thanks for sharing the link to your Wiki. I didn’t realize that you had set it up - looks great! I’m no fan of ads either, so goodonya.
I guess that makes two wikis in TESL now. Hmmm…how best not to overlap? Or should I say, the more the merrier?
Posted 27 Jun 2006 at 8:01 pm ¶
EFL Geek wrote:
Roger has definitely put more time into the content of his wiki than I have with the one I started. Bloody summer courses and administrative screw-ups have left me with almost no time to work on it. Anyhow I’ll be working on it soon.
It’s hard to say what to do. I’m also with Roger on the no advertising approach (except for my hosting footer). Perhaps there’s room for two, perhaps not. Perhaps the focus will end up being slightly different for each and they will both serve a (slightly) different audience.
Posted 27 Jun 2006 at 8:33 pm ¶
Craig wrote:
I created a esl/efl Wiki space which may be of interest to you.I’ve yet to add it to EFL Geek’s Wiki as I haven’t figured out all the technical details yet.
http://eflcourse.wikispaces.com/
Posted 28 Jun 2006 at 5:39 pm ¶
Aaron wrote:
EFL Geek, I agree with you about there being different audiences for different sites. Full steam ahead for everyone!
Craig, thanks for sharing the link to your site.
Wow! Wikis are coming out of the woodwork now.
One of the disadvantages to many wiki software is the technical hurdle involved in knowing how to format text and make links. I think this scares many people away. Why can’t a wiki provide a WYSIWYG to make participation easier?
Posted 29 Jun 2006 at 9:05 am ¶
EFL Geek wrote:
Aaron,
I believe there is a wysiswyg plugin available for the wiki I am running. When I have more time, after July 20, I’ll look into it.
Posted 29 Jun 2006 at 12:20 pm ¶
GeorgeOfTheJungle wrote:
http://pmwiki.org is a very strong wiki, one of the main advantages is that it doesn’t require MySQL and thus can be used on almost any web server.
Other than uploading the files, all you need to do is set the permission for one folder to 723.
You can see an example running at http://www.manythings.org/tesl/moodle/
This one shows how you can even use a wiki as a CMS and only allow invited guests to edit.
Posted 12 Apr 2007 at 11:09 pm ¶
Guzman Mancho wrote:
Hello,
I have begun using a wiki for my ESP classes for the first time. The wiki platform is WIKISPACES, which generally is a WYSIWYT applcation. You can find it at htp://www.wikispaces.com
So far, students like it, and they do not have to struggle much with technology, but rather with their language
Posted 31 Oct 2007 at 7:55 pm ¶
Aaron wrote:
Thanks for sharing that Guzman. I love the way a wiki can support collaboration and co-creation on a single document.
Posted 16 Nov 2007 at 7:18 am ¶
Guzman Mancho wrote:
Thanks for the message. I wonder if anyone knows of any wiki which would support (1) phonetic symbols, (2) medieval letters (thorns, eths, ashes…). Wikispaces does not seem to.
Posted 17 Nov 2007 at 12:15 am ¶